This can be a rush transcript from “MediaBuzz,” October 10, 2021. This copy might not be in its closing type and could also be up to date.

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST (on digicam): We have all identified for years actually how Fb has enabled, embraced, inspired and merchandised essentially the most harmful forces in society. However Frances Haugen has modified the talk with a savvy media rollout, leaking to “The Wall Avenue Journal” happening “60 Minutes” testifying on the Hill.

Why is she driving a lot protection? The press loves leaks, adores whistleblowers, and as a former official, she brings insider cred (ph). Haugen is the Daniel Ellsberg of the digital world, a digicam radio (ph) accuser whose presence personalizes the fierce criticism of Mark Zuckerberg.

And the media are extremely receptive to her assaults after years of frustration in each conservative and liberal media circles over bias, misinformation, the unfold of hate and anger, the corrosive results of Instagram on teenage women and years of Zuckerberg apologies and belated guarantees to do higher. Haugen is peddling a message that information shops are anxious to amplify.

However This is the factor. These aren’t simply her opinions. It is the tens of 1000’s of inner paperwork, proving that the Fb brass (ph) is totally conscious of its more and more poisonous influence and hasn’t executed a lot about it that gives the story’s energy. You could or could not like, for example, Haugen however she has acquired the products. And the problem for pundits and politicians alike is to maintain after maybe the world’s strongest media firm.

I am Howard Kurtz and that is “Media Buzz”

The story kicked into overdrive when the Fb whistleblower revealed her identification to “CBS” Scott Pelley.


FRANCES HAUGEN, FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER: The model of Fb that exists right now is tearing our societies aside and inflicting ethnic violence world wide.


KURTZ (on digicam): Haugen’s testimony drew reward from Republican and Democratic senators alike.


UNKNOWN: You’re a twenty first century American hero.

UNKNOWN: Thanks for coming ahead and thanks for coming ahead within the method that you simply need to have constructive change.


KURTZ (on digicam): Most pundits are embracing her indictment of Fb however there’s substantial suspicion on the suitable.


There is a widespread understanding and notably across the subject of youngsters that this — that that is an awfully dangerous firm.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You suppose that that is any much less pernicious than cigarettes? It is in every single place. It is all the pieces. Have a look at your children. Have a look at your life.

NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC ANCHOR: Fb would face with decisions between getting extra eyeballs on its platform, extra time spent on the platform or defending society. All the time chooses the eyeballs and the cash.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Republicans could also be strolling straight right into a entice. The left’s actual beef with Fb has nothing to do with the youngsters. The children are on TikTok, aren’t they? The left does not like Fb as a result of Fb has refused to suppress all conservative speech. That is it.


KURTZ: Zuckerberg broke his silence with a Fb publish, we care deeply about points like security, and well-being and psychological well being. It is troublesome to see protection that misrepresents our work and our motives. I feel most of us simply do not acknowledge the false image of the corporate that’s being painted.

Becoming a member of us now to research the protection, Ben Domenech, founder and writer of “The Federalist” and Mara Liasson, NPR’s nationwide political reporter. Each are Fox Information contributors. Ben, good to have you ever on the set. Looks like liberals in addition to conservative media by and enormous are so fed up with Fb and its infinite excuses that they are welcoming Frances Haugen’s testimony.

BEN DOMENECH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, FOUNDER AND PUBLISHER OF THE FEDERALIST: Effectively, I view Frances Haugen’s testimony as attempting to really do one thing that Fb desires. Fb actually has been, you recognize, operating all these advertisements, speaking about updating tech laws, individuals have most likely seen them for the previous a number of months. They’ve completely been engaged in the concept that new laws are one thing that they might welcome. These laws are one thing that they’ll afford to bear because the behemoth that they’re.

KURTZ: Different firms could not.

DOMENECH: Precisely. Smaller firms, challengers could not be capable of bear such issues. The flip of that, in fact, is what they need to head off (ph) is that this anti-trust push that is been occurring, that is been supported by not simply Elizabeth Warren however some individuals on the suitable like Josh Hawley as effectively, designed to primarily break up the corporate, to show — to say that it is unacceptable for Fb to personal Instagram and WhatsApp and all these different features of expertise that we use.

These are two totally different paths they usually’re totally different in important respects. I feel Haugen’s testimony clearly is newsworthy. It is actually, you recognize, the paperwork that she leaked are newsworthy.

KURTZ: Yeah.

DOMENECH: However I additionally suppose that individuals should not view her essentially as being in opposition to what Fb really desires to realize, which is a regulatory burden that they might really welcome as a result of it squashes their potential opponents.

KURTZ: That is an enchanting take. Mara, Frances Haugen’s rollout could have been a bit slick, the massive reveal on “60 Minutes” and all of that. However whereas the media like to deal with a single heroine, I’d say her significance (INAUDIBLE) paperwork showings, Zuckerberg is aware of, his entire crew is aware of, Sheryl Sandberg is aware of, however the unfold of toxicity and issues just like the ache for teenage women on Instagram.

MARA LIASSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER FOR NPR: Yeah. Look, I believed that it is a very complicated problen and it is why the suitable and the left commentators do not fall into neat classes on this. However Frances Haugen is saying one thing that individuals have been saying for years, that Fb’s algorithm, the algorithm of most social media, is to maintain you on-line so long as attainable to allow them to promote you extra advertisements.

KURTZ: Preserve you addicted.

LIASSON: And excessive content material retains you on-line. However, such as you mentioned, she has 1000’s and 1000’s of paperwork. The talk about what to do about it, do you break Fb up so you’ve 10 Facebooks doing all the identical factor? I do not know if that solves the issue. Do you regulate Fb? Who does the regulating? What are can penalties of that? I imply, it is actually difficult. I do not suppose there is a consensus about what must be executed —

KURTZ: Yeah.

LIASSON: — however there does appear to be a bipartisan consensus that proper now Fb and quite a lot of social media are unhealthy actors and are exacerbating issues in society that enhance division.

KURTZ: Effectively, Ben, Haugen desires Congress to do the regulating however, in fact, there are totally different views on Capitol Hill. Look, a few of the conservative media are specializing in the truth that Frances Haugen gave cash to AOC and different Democrats, that she works liberal agency. For example she is basically liberal. So what? Most Democrats don’t love Fb both. You talked about Elizabeth Warren as an FTC and belief (ph) investigation. So how a lot does her personal private motivation matter?

DOMENECH: I feel it solely issues to the diploma that it signifies her ideological preferences on this second is likely to be for Fb to crack down extra on — quote, unquote — “misinformation from the suitable” And that her personal preferences if utilized might doubtlessly skew issues in a selected course. She was clearly —

KURTZ: Why solely misinformation from the suitable? Why not crack down on misinformation from the left?

DOMENECH: As a result of she was a part of the identical crew that clearly cracked down on the Hunter Biden story within the days approaching the November election of final 12 months. You clearly had a crackdown throughout Fb and Twitter —

KURTZ: Twitter particularly.

DOMENECH: — that was attempting to silence the story. Twitter even took the step of stopping individuals from sending it in direct messages.

KURTZ: Yeah.

DOMENECH: In order that sort of signifies, I feel, to proper middle observers this lady simply desires to silence us, she desires to silence people who find themselves sharing issues that she does not like from an ideological perspective. Whether or not that is true or not —

KURTZ: Yeah.

DOMENECH: — the purpose that Mara made is essential, which is that who does the deciding on this state of affairs? That is a crucial query. I feel that is one of many explanation why you are going to, I consider, hear rising requires breaking apart these firms and never having them have a lot concentrated energy to determine what we’re allowed to speak about.

KURTZ: Yeah, it is immense energy. Then the query is are you penalizing success? So, as an instance, Mara, that Frances Haugen turns into a cable information fixture, she turns into a little bit of a star, does that undermine her criticism? She does clearly have a reasonably deep information of how these tech firms work.

LIASSON: No. I imply, I simply carry on going again tour opening section. The aim — her goal was to disclose the paperwork and to point out that Fb knew about this. What Frances Haugen thinks ought to be the proper answer, who cares? Congress goes to determine what to do about Fb or to not do something in any respect.

I imply, she’s only a messenger. The factor that made her story essential is that she got here with, as you mentioned, the products. What she mentioned is just not new. Individuals have been speaking about this for years. However abruptly, now we all know that Fb knew about it too and acknowledged it.

KURTZ: Proper. Look, there’s an argument that Fb desires to have the ability to have interaction in additional what you’d name censorship of content material that liberals discover unacceptable. In any case, it’s the social community that ban and proceed to ban Donald Trump.

But when that is true and also you say that they are virtually like unintentional allies although is Haugen is on the market ripping Fb and Zuckerberg, why does Fb want this canine in pony present? Why do not they only proceed to tweet the algorithm as they see match, the best way that Zuckerberg desires, the best way that maximizes site visitors?

DOMENECH: I feel that is what they will proceed doing. And I feel within the absence —

KURTZ: All of this uproar.

DOMENECH: By way of all of this uproar, I feel that that’s going to proceed. And you are going to proceed to see the sort of tales that we have seen repeatedly occurred over the previous a number of years, even exterior of political actors themselves the place persons are usually unintentionally being shadow banned or unintentionally having their posts suspended, unintentionally having conditions the place the issues that they are sharing are being silenced.

I imply, I have a look at humorous website like “The Babylon Bee” which insults usually the biases of the left. They had been open about the truth that regardless of having unbelievable numbers when it comes to their followers, they’ll share posts and have single digits of people who find themselves really in a position to see it.

KURTZ: Proper.

DOMENECH: And that is the sort of state of affairs that claims, you recognize, we do not consider that is occurring accidentally. We consider that there is somebody who’s — wherever they’re within the hierarchy who is popping a dial or pulling a lever —

KURTZ: Yeah.

DOMENECH: — that retains individuals who agree with us from seeing the content material we’re producing.

KURTZ: Effectively, Zuckerberg admits it is a left-leaning firm. Bear in mind, he went by the train of assembly with conservatives to attempt to repair that. Clearly, he did not repair it. By the best way, Mara, that five-hour outage the opposite day didn’t assist. You suppose the world would come to an finish with all of the protection that that acquired.


KURTZ: However look, what about Mark Zuckerberg and his shift? Often on this previous lapse, going again to 2016, Russian disinformation and all that, he apologizes, he guarantees to do higher, they roll out —


KURTZ: — you recognize, ten-point plan. However now, he appears to be executed apologizing. He’s placing out defiant statements.


KURTZ: Blaming the press. What do you consider his tactic to say, oh, the protection, we simply do not acknowledge this firm?

LIASSON: Yeah. I imply, he is pushing again, he is being defensive. I do not know who his associates are. I imply, who’s going to come back to the protection of Fb? It looks like Fb itself is in a defensive crouch. There have been experiences about Fb is sort of over-the-hill, it is on the decline. However it is a firm that has super points to face and we have sort of by no means seen Mark Zuckerberg really face them.

KURTZ: So, the political world is defriending Fb. Is that what is going on on right here?

LIASSON: Perhaps.

KURTZ: Ben —

DOMENECH: I feel actually that that is — there’s something like that happening. However within the bigger perspective, all of those totally different Silicon Valley firms, they had been all began with some sort of ambition to make the world a greater place.

KURTZ: Do not be evil.

DOMENECH: Precisely. And I feel that lots of them, together with Mark Zuckerberg and Fb, are grappling with the truth that that won’t have been what they’ve really achieved.

KURTZ: Proper. And that is the place we at the moment are, which is, you recognize, Zuckerberg and these individuals, they had been heroes within the begin of this. , the man begins Fb in his Harvard dorm room and now, in fact, the world will get extra difficult.

He insists for years and years, we’re not a media firm, individuals can say what they need they usually, in fact, attempt to crack down on some offensive hateful speech. Inevitably, there are complaints, particularly from the suitable, that you simply’re doing it in a biased approach.

Let me get a break right here. Once we come again, the protection of Donald Trump heats up as Mike Pence accuses the media of misusing the January sixth tragedy. That is subsequent.


KURTZ (on digicam): Because the media boosts their protection of the Home probe into what occurred on January sixth, Donald Trump is downplaying the Capitol riot in favor of his claims of election fraud.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): The rebellion happened on November third. That was the rebellion, after they rigged the election. The massive rebellion, the actual rebellion, the actually, the crime of the century.


KURTZ (on digicam): And his vp whose life was at risk on that day when he refused to attempt to block the Electoral School outcomes is pointing on the press.


MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do know the media desires to distract from the Biden administration’s failed agenda by specializing in sooner or later in January. They need to use that sooner or later to try to demean the character and intentions of 74 million People.


KURTZ (on digicam): Ben Domenech, let’s begin with Donald Trump. The media slightly like specializing in January sixth, I feel, however is not the previous president serving to them try this very factor by continuously seeming to attenuate the riots and now saying election day was the actual election.

DOMENECH: I feel that Republicans would very very similar to to see former President Trump transfer on from this concept that the election was stolen from him. However I do not suppose that that is going to occur. I do not suppose there’s any indication that that is going to occur.

KURTZ: Lindsey Graham and others have informed him.

DOMENECH: Sure. I feel he is been informed instantly by various his allies politically, principally saying, you recognize, give it up, transfer on. Now, I’ll say that one of many elements, I feel, happening right here is that there is nonetheless lots of people in his orbit who need him to proceed to do that.

We noticed simply this week Steve Bannon on his personal podcast radio present saying that Trump might be reinstituted by 2022, if not earlier than. , which is clearly absurd and it isn’t going to occur.

However on the identical time, I feel, you recognize, he has lots of people in his ear who really do need him to be a big political power and perceive that if he makes all of it about him and all about his personal gripes, that is one thing that is going to at all times stop him from having the impact on doubtlessly not simply 2022 however 2024 that they want him to have.

KURTZ: Yeah, that actually appears to be the GOP, at the very least privately.


KURTZ: Mara, when Trump does this stuff, election day was the actual rebellion, it in impact forces journalists to say no, there isn’t a proof of widespread fraud.


KURTZ: Your personal Justice Division could not discover any. By the best way, the Senate Judiciary Committee simply issued a report the opposite day detailing how Justice Division officers threatened to resign if the then president did not cease pressuring them to overturn the election. So it appears to me Trump is getting the protection he desires and possibly the media sort of like this as a result of it’s higher for rankings than speaking about debt ceiling.

LIASSON: Effectively, Donald Trump is at all times good for rankings. However there is no doubt the Democrats need to make the 2022 election about Donald Trump. They want him to be on the poll, figuratively. And he is serving to them as a result of he retains on — he is the primary Republican. So long as he is on the market conserving alive this concept that he’ll run in 2024, he maintains his place as crucial Republican on the planet.

And the brand new litmus take a look at for being loyal to Donald Trump is agreeing with this lie that the election was stolen from him and now he is made it much more superior, saying that January sixth was sort of a patriotic protest and November third was the actual rebellion.

Everybody has to agree with that if they will have a future within the Republican Occasion. You noticed Chuck Grassley seem with Trump at that rally in Iowa final night time.

KURTZ: Yeah.

LIASSON: Chuck Grassley had some fairly harsh phrases for Donald Trump —

KURTZ: Effectively —

LIASSON: — after January sixth, however he is operating for re-election and there is just one alternative for him.

KURTZ: They must both agree or at the very least not overtly problem it. All proper. Mike Pence, clearly, Ben, is attempting to string the needle. He has his personal aspirations for 2024 if Trump does not run. The media are actually denigrating him as a result of on the riot, as all of us noticed, we had these protesters with the information chanting, grasp Mike Pence, and he is now saying it is simply sooner or later in January and blaming the press for what he sees as an extreme deal with that sooner or later.

DOMENECH: Effectively, I feel that Pence is precisely diagnosing the truth that the press wish to make that sooner or later everything of any objection to the best way that this election was run.

I feel, in fact, that Pence could be higher a lot better off and Trump himself could be higher off principally saying the foundations that had been put in place previously 12 months led to quite a lot of questions on voting, quite a lot of questions on accuracy, mail-in voting throughout a pandemic, all of those different issues which have been introduced up that I feel are actually questions that individuals can elevate with out saying that an election was stolen.

However the humorous factor right here is we’re speaking within the week after Terry McAuliffe, who’s operating for governor in Virginia, was requested about his personal statements about each the 2000 and 2004 election —

KURTZ: Yeah.

DOMENECH: — and he did not again off it both. So, quite a lot of these partisans, Howie, they actually do get into their dedication right here on the subject of the concept that something that they lose is stolen from them.

KURTZ: They do get dug in. Mara, do you purchase Mike Pence’s argument, by the best way, saying sooner or later in January, sort of like calling 9/11 sooner or later in September? It was a reasonably tragic day.

LIASSON: It was a tragic day. And likewise —

KURTZ: Let me simply end my query. Do you purchase his argument that the media are doing this intentionally to distract or deflect from Joe Biden’s appreciable woes?

LIASSON: No. I feel there was super protection of Joe Biden’s appreciable woes. I imply, I feel the media has been, you recognize, like a canine with a bone on that. It will be onerous to see how they’re ignoring all of the issues which have occurred: Afghanistan, the debt ceiling, you recognize, the hang-up together with his agenda.

However the different factor that Mike Pence mentioned, which I feel is completely false, is to say that by specializing in January sixth, essentially the most violent rebellion in opposition to the Capitol in over 100 years, by some means is denigrating the 74 million individuals who voted for Donald Trump.

KURTZ: Yeah.

LIASSON: That is simply fully false.

KURTZ: Proper. They’d fully nothing to do with it.

LIASSON: No. Nor did anyone say they did.

KURTZ: Effectively, apart from a couple of radicals possibly. I acquired to go. Mara Liasson, Ben Domenech, thanks very a lot for becoming a member of us this Sunday.

Up subsequent, as Congress kicks the can once more on the debt ceiling disaster, effectively, conservative and liberal pundits are pounding on Mitch McConnell. Extra in a second.


KURTZ (on digicam): The ominous headlines all mentioned America was dealing with a attainable monetary default till Mitch McConnell, who had refused to offer any republican votes to raise the debt ceiling, made a short-term deal, pushing the issue off till this December.


JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: And also you suppose that is a sport, Donald Trump? You suppose that is a sport, Lindsey Graham? What’s mistaken with you? It is a sport? No, you are enjoying with individuals’s lives.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Mitch McConnell tonight, it’s good to cease being a swamp creature, and if you wish to be a conservative chief, it’s good to begin appearing like one. And if you cannot try this, you actually do must step apart.


KURTZ (on digicam): Becoming a member of us now’s Mike Emanuel, Fox’s chief Washington correspondent. And Mike, this started with a reasonably uncooked political transfer by Mitch McConnell. As you see, he’s getting it from Sean Hannity, he’s getting it from liberal pundits. Look, do not the media punish anyone who agrees to the slightest compromise, although on this case McConnell doing the fiscally accountable factor?

MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That’s sort of the surroundings proper now, you are both in a single camp or the opposite. And so, in the event you come collectively, then that sort of defeats, I do not know, the narrative or the continued battle, the confrontation.

And so, look, Mitch McConnell, my understanding is, was speaking to monetary individuals who mentioned, you recognize, do not spook the markets. If that’s the case, you will be blamed for it.

KURTZ: You do not have to attend for the day of the default. He did sort of blink after President Biden referred to as him out in a speech. However it’s simply so placing to me as a result of, you recognize, have a look at the stakes right here. You possibly can spook the markets, you’ll be able to result in a authorities shutdown, you might result in a nationwide default, all of which has actual penalties, not only a sport.

EMANUEL: Plus, considered one of Mitch McConnell’s high priorities proper now’s to do nothing to jeopardize the midterm elections.

KURTZ: Yeah.

EMANUEL: You have a look at the Democrats proper now. They’re struggling on a wide range of fronts from the border to Afghanistan —

KURTZ: Completely.

EMANUEL: — to inflation and so forth. And so principally keep out of the best way and see what the Democrats do after which by the midterms, chances are you’ll be rewarded or possibly majority chief yet again.

KURTZ (on digicam): Right here is one other Mitch McConnell critic. Have a look.


TRUMP (voice-over): Mitch is just not the man. He is not the suitable man. He is not doing the job. He gave them a lifeline.


KURTZ (on digicam): Look, the media love Republican in-fighting, notably love when Donald Trump goes after Mitch McConnell. They was once allies. Now, clearly, it’s a very bitter relationship.

EMANUEL: Yeah, no love misplaced there at this level within the relationship. So, I am not shocked to listen to the previous president’s feedback about McConnell. Look, McConnell at this level desires to ensure that the individuals within the room with him, the Republican senators, are nonetheless behind him.

There are some harm emotions as a result of some thought, like, this did not work in addition to that they had hoped. However he is nonetheless the chief. If he wins again the bulk in 2022, effectively, then they’re all going to be rather a lot happier on Capitol Hill when it comes to the Republicans.

KURTZ: Yeah. However he is a pacesetter of some Republicans who clearly do not need to play this debt ceiling sport. And likewise, you recognize, Trump is the chief of the whole celebration and has a really totally different view.

All proper. The Democrats — let’s check out video. It is actually {powerful}. Chuck Schumer was giving a speech and Joe Manchin behind him — simply have a look. He is simply beside himself. He later referred to as Schumer’s remarks inappropriate. It was proper after the cope with McConnell, and Schumer was sort of ripping McConnell and the Republicans. So, does the press get pleasure from masking Democratic in-fighting as a lot as on the GOP facet?

EMANUEL: I do not suppose so. However, you recognize, Joe Manchin represents a ruby purple state in West Virginia. He talks to Republicans on a regular basis. They’re his constituents in lots of regards.

KURTZ: Proper.

EMANUEL: And he additionally talks to Republican senators. And so I feel —

KURTZ: Like McConnell.

EMANUEL: Yeah. And as soon as the disaster was over, he is like, what are you doing, you recognize, spiking the ball. There are different fights forward. We will be again on the debt ceiling deal once more in December. And so, I feel that is why he thought it was so inappropriate.

KURTZ: Pay attention, once you go like this, I do not suppose there’s a lot doubt even in the event you use phrases like inappropriate as to the place you stand. All the time good to have you ever right here, Mike Emanuel. Thanks a lot.

Subsequent on Media Buzz” Nikki Haley collapsed again at a CNN anchor who denounced right here. And later, the Monica Lewinsky TV collection drawing plenty of flak.


KURTZ (on digicam): With President Biden sliding within the polls the media is paying extra consideration to attainable Republican challengers who aren’t named Trump.

CNN’s Brianna Keilar took on Nikki Haley after a speech that the anchor seen as backing off Haley’s previous criticism of Trump and her personal document in opposition to racism.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: She even tried to go to Mar-a- Lago to kiss the ring however was reportedly denied. Now she could also be proper that historical past will decide Donald Trump harshly however Nikki Haley won’t as a result of she’s too busy attempting to trip his coat tails.


KURTZ (on digicam): The previous South Carolina governor and U.N. ambassador who in fact is of Indian descent hit again on Fox Information.


NIKKI HALEY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: It is wonderful to me how the liberal media cannot stand it when somebody black or brown occurs to speak about the truth that America is the most effective nation on the planet. And that very same state elected me as the primary feminine and first minority governor and you may’t say that we’re a racist nation. You simply cannot.


KURTZ: Becoming a member of us now, Robby Soave of Cause journal and creator of the ebook, “Tech Panic: Why We should not Worry Fb and the Future,” and Richard Fowler, the radio speak present host and Fox information contributor.

Robby, what do you make of the try on CNN to take down Nikki Haley for the sin of not denouncing the president she labored for?

ROBBY SOAVE, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, REASON.COM: Proper. I feel it was a reasonably lame assault clearly however that mentioned, Nikki Haley has I feel adopted a wide range of positions, re Trump. I feel that is a good accusation. I do not suppose she put it the suitable approach. After all, that is true of quite a lot of Republican officers. That is true of the broader conservative motion. The query is —


KURTZ: So that you suppose — you suppose Brianna Keilar had a degree in criticizing Haley?

SOAVE: Sure. However each — heaps of people that have reversed themselves about Trump. The important thing with Haley is, is she on board with the Trump agenda. I take her to be extra of a real believer within the, particularly on overseas coverage of the older extra Bush-esque sort of neo conservative overseas coverage. And that is actually an anathema to Trump voters.

So, do they belief her on that? I feel that is really what issues about whether or not she modified her stance on Trump which is one thing everybody within the Republican Occasion did. Has she modified her views? That is what the Trump supporters are going to need to know.

KURTZ: , once I take heed to Nikki Haley’s response, I believed why is she making this about race. However then again, race was on the core of Brianna Keilar’s assault that this was the governor, the previous governor who took down the accomplice flag on the South Carolina Capitol, state capitol however by some means it is her fault that the accomplice flag was carried into the capitol, the U.S. Capitol that’s on January sixth.

RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks for having me, Howie. I feel there’s an attention-grabbing dilemma occurring each within the media and in American politics. Proper? I feel increasingly you see anchors giving these longer monologues in a seek for reality.

And with that being mentioned, you’ve politicians like Nikki Haley and others who to Robby’s level, whereas they attempt to discover reality, they’re additionally attempting to get their political gears in movement.

And I feel what we’re seeing with Nikki Haley, is you had a candidate or a person that after thought that Trump was nice, then she thought Trump was unhealthy, now she’s form of having this consternation with Trump although she labored for him. And I feel so it is proper for Brianna Keilar to name it out.

The query that I do not fairly perceive is why has Nikki Haley is form of delved into this dialog round race. What — when really what — what really makes America nice is the truth that we are able to have this profound and provocative conversations about race and make modifications and coverage choices just like the one she made in South Carolina to take down that accomplice flag —

KURTZ: Proper.

FOWLER: — within the pursuit to make America a extra simply and equal place.

KURTZ: Effectively there’s a broader media assault happening right here. And that is for Robby. New York journal, I am quoting from a chunk, Trump’s Republican Occasion is an authoritarian venture. In the interim there isn’t a type of Republican politics that’s according to democracy. So, in different phrases, except you assault Trump, everybody within the celebration is complicit.

SOAVE: Sure. Effectively, I imply, the media’s view on that is far exterior the mainstream voter. Particularly, I imply, that is why it goes — that is why it goes to race so usually within the mainstream media. They need to speak about race in a approach that even — even average Democratic voters do not agree.

They’re — they’re, you recognize, altering Latino individuals to Latinx, that sort of factor. The media — the media has this sort of far progressive method to all these points and to, you recognize, demonizing Trump individuals and making them out to be the worst individuals on earth when that is — that is simply — after which that makes them I feel not perceive these voters very effectively. After which, you recognize, they’re monologuing to themselves, they’re speaking from a far-left place that solely the media is listening.

KURTZ: Effectively, possibly their viewers like that exact place. Richard, I feel it is honest for journalists to ask any Republican workplace holder or candidate, do you consider the election was stolen from Trump. Chris Wallace did that this morning with Congressman Steve Scalise, 3 times he requested, he did not get a direct reply.

However the liberal media argument you hear this rather a lot from MSNBC host is, there is a system that tries to tie any Republican to the capitol riot.

FOWLER: Effectively, and I feel that, therein lies the excellence. Proper. As a result of you’ll be able to’t tie each Republican to what occurred on January sixth.

KURTZ: Precisely.

FOWLER: However what you’ll be able to tie a Republican to is whether or not or not they agree with the president’s line of reasoning. And the president’s line of reasoning hasn’t stood up a day in court docket, actually has no proof to again it that claims by some means, a way this election was stolen from him and there was large voter — large voter fraud going down.

And so when Republicans connect to that line, whether or not they need extra audits of their state or they’re saying that there is a downside with our present election system as it’s, all of these converse to the truth that you are attempting to weaken our democracy and there goes — therein lies the imbalance.

KURTZ: All proper. Let me use our remaining time to come back again to the lead story, that’s in fact Fb, Robby. Trying on the blitz over whistleblower Frances Haugen, how pretty can the media report on social media such because the seemingly omnipotent Fb?

SOAVE: They cannot. And that is one thing individuals actually have to remember. I do not suppose it is talked about sufficient. The mainstream media — social media is a rival with the mainstream media. The mainstream media is the one, the individuals within the New York Occasions, Washington Publish, newspapers, another tv channels, they’re essentially the most anti-Fb in any respect — of all as a result of they see Fb as a rival that took away their monopoly on what you get to say and talk about and listen to about.

So, they need this firm destroyed most of all. That is why I feel quite a lot of the issues the whistleblower talked about, they’re issues however the media is amplifying them in a really hyperbolic approach as a result of they make — they need to make it sound it worse than it’s so the federal government destroys their rival they usually can return to being in cost.

And folks ought to be weary of that dynamic. There may be — that is an trade rivalry that I feel usually doesn’t, you recognize, make the headlines. As a result of the individuals make the headlines do not need to acknowledge that.

KURTZ: Sure. Effectively, Fb has stolen the lunch of quite a lot of the mainstream media. However in fact, additionally they use Fb to publicize and get clicks for his or her tales. So, Richard, now that Mark Zuckerberg is taking a extra defiant stance in opposition to the press, I’ve this query. Has he created a form of a Frankenstein monster that even he and his fellow tech moguls cannot management?

FOWLER: That is precisely what they’ve created, Howie. And I feel what makes this downside even worse is within the try, within the media’s try to offer accountability to social media platforms exist within the absence of the federal authorities and our lawmakers, each Democrats and Republicans who’ve expressed consternation about social media however neither appears to be prepared or prepared to really present some regulatory reforms to make sure that social media does not get away with what they’re presently getting away with.

KURTZ: I feel that is likely to be altering however we’ll see if they’ve the braveness provided that each side get quite a lot of contribution particularly the Democrats from these tech firms.

Robby Soave, Richard Fowler, good to see you each. Thanks a lot. After the break, Julie Banderas on why Monica Lewinsky’s “Impeachment” collection is drawing extra flak and fewer viewers.



UNKNOWN: Linda, please. Please, that is my actual life we’re speaking about. And I am scared.


KURTZ (on digicam): The FX collection impeachment portrays Monica Lewinsky sympathetically. She is, in any case one of many producers. However opinions have been tough and rankings have dropped by almost half to only over half 1,000,000 viewers whilst the primary topic promotes it.


MONICA LEWINSKY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE: The implications had been approach worse for me —

UNKNOWN: Undoubtedly.

LEWINSKY: — than they had been for essentially the most {powerful} man on the planet and a few of the different individuals within the scandal, all 20 years older than me, is insane.


KURTZ: However Clinton accuser Paula Jones mentioned the present by no means acquired in contact together with her and that a few of the materials involving her is simply made up.


UNKNOWN: Invoice Clinton offered himself to me in a really unprofessional method.

PAULA JONES, CLINTON ACCUSER: How can I painting someone precisely if they do not even name them.


KURTZ (on digicam): Becoming a member of us from New York is Julie Banderas, Fox Information anchor.

Look, Monica Lewinsky have not been demonized for therefore lengthy has each proper to inform her story. However given a few of the opinions, The Guardian evaluating the collection to an SNL skit, do you suppose the magnitude of the scandal and a Invoice Clinton’s mendacity have been misplaced on this melodrama.

JULIE BANDERAS, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I feel so. However I simply need to contact on one thing that Paula Jones simply mentioned about how the collection did not contact her.

KURTZ: Sure.

BANDERAS: Fox really did a documentary on Fox Nation, OK? We reached out to her and the chief producer, is a really shut good friend of mine, so I bear in mind when she went by this, it was a nightmare she could not get Monica after which she tried Paula Jones a number of occasions. She booked her. And he or she stored canceling and he or she flaked ultimately.

So, she wasn’t trying to get her facet of the story on the market. So, it is attention-grabbing that now she’s critiquing Monica.

KURTZ: Fascinating.

BANDERAS: I simply must say this, although. Persons are not watching this as a result of primarily, they do not need to give credence to Paula Jones and her story. As a result of clearly, the left is afraid of canceling Invoice. I imply, Invoice Clinton has actually go, you recognize, remained unscathed in any case of this which remains to be at the present time and the Me Too motion, if you wish to name it that, surprising.

I additionally suppose it is attention-grabbing that Paula Jones mentioned that she has nothing to do with the Me Too motion or higher but, the Me Too motion has nothing to do with me. However but, she will not speak to Fox Information once we did a really, very prolonged documentary and we coated each single angle, each side. She did not need to say a phrase.

KURTZ: Sure. , it is fascinating. I do not know if the collection acquired a much bigger ranking, would that make us nearer to canceling Invoice Clinton. I imply, it is true, he is sort of revered as an elder political statesman within the Democrat Occasion —


KURTZ: — however clearly he took much more warmth as soon as the Me Too motion solid what occurred 20 years in the past in a really totally different gentle. Look, Monica Lewinsky can be on the market selling an HBO max documentary, it is referred to as 15 Minutes of Disgrace, saying, and that is true, she was the primary to be nationally humiliated by the web when the web was extra in its infancy. After which she interviews different individuals —


KURTZ: — who had been savaged by social media mob, a few of them made errors. However I assume my counter to that’s, some individuals should be shamed for issues that they did.

BANDERAS: I agree. And I consider that Invoice Clinton till today, I imply, will dwell down in infamy for being shamed and ought to be extra shamed than Monica Lewinsky. He was over 20 years her senior and he or she, her life was fully shattered.

I feel it is attention-grabbing that the liberal Hollywood elites primarily don’t need to promote the collection. If you consider it by pandemic, we have all been watching Netflix and Hulu and FX and all of this docu collection. Why hasn’t this been promoted? Why hasn’t this bought the best way that every one these different documentaries.

Clearly, till today, I consider that the liberal media and in addition the Hollywood elites are nonetheless defending their liberal model and that may be Invoice Clinton and I consider that there is a double commonplace. Had Hillary Clinton again within the day left her husband, would she have had a greater standing when it got here to operating for president.

It is attention-grabbing, Georgina Chapman when she vilified after not leaving Harvey Weinstein instantly and her vogue line would have crumbled if she hadn’t walked away.

KURTZ: Sure.

BANDERAS: We get Hillary Clinton moved on to run for the White Home. It is simply attention-grabbing how sure Democrats have such safety in Hollywood.

KURTZ: However then again, Monica Lewinsky has been interviewed on CNN, on the Right now present, on Each day present.


KURTZ: However that does not essentially translate into individuals — I do not know, like everybody likes to look at, you recognize, Princess Diana documentaries. However I do not know that lots of people need to relive Linda Tripp and all of this listing of stuff that went on.

BANDERAS: No. I feel to start with that they don’t have anything to achieve, and I feel that persons are uninterested in cancel tradition. And so they do not need to resurrect one thing that died years in the past. That is over. It is executed. I consider that Monica Lewinsky has each proper to say her peace however she already has, and I simply do not see this actually shifting ahead. I imply, let’s transfer on.

KURTZ: Effectively, I am glad she has been in a position to form of rebuild her life and be an anti-bully —

BANDERAS: Sure, for certain.

KURTZ: — and advocate and all that. She could not reply one query on the HBO exhibits. I am going to throw it to you. If social media had existed, if we lived within the Twitter sphere again in 1998 when the scandal broke would Invoice Clinton have been canceled?

BANDERAS: I feel within the Me too motion, sure. I consider that as a result of it is such a special period now than it was again then. That sure, I consider with social media, completely, he would have been crushed. Would he have been faraway from workplace? Perhaps not. I imply, would he be impeached? Sure. However I do not suppose a lot would have modified politically.

KURTZ: Sure. I am form of with you on that. As somebody who coated and lived by it. I imply, individuals neglect how —


KURTZ: — totally dominant a narrative — there was no Fb or Twitter — totally dominant story.


KURTZ: It was on each sort of channel, each sort of website online. However in the end, there would have been sufficient Democratic senators to maintain him in workplace after the impeachment.

BANDERAS: Certain.

KURTZ: Julie Banderas, nice to see you. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us once more.

BANDERAS: Nice to see you.

KURTZ: And nonetheless to come back, ESPN suspends a bunch who criticized Barack Obama. Anthony Fauci blames the media. And Rudy Giuliani’s secret cope with OAN. The Buzz Beater is subsequent.


KURTZ (on digicam): Time to beat the clock on the Buzz Beater. Let’s go. ESPN has taken host Sage Steele off the air for not as a result of she examined constructive for COVID and possibly not as a result of she referred to as the community’s vaccine mandate sick after getting the shot.

The networks says Steele has to precise her opinions, quote, “according to our values and consistent with our inner insurance policies.” That after she mentioned this about Barack Obama figuring out on the census as African-American.


SAGE STEELE, HOST, ESPN: I feel that is fascinating considers — contemplating his black dad is nowhere to be discovered however as white mother and grandma elevate him. However hey, you do you, I’ll do me.


KURTZ (on digicam): Effectively that was dumb. And Steele apologized after being suspended. However again when one other black host, Jamele Hill referred to as President a white supremacist, ESPN took no motion. And you may rating that as a double commonplace.

Rudy Giuliani says he reduce a cope with the president of One America Information community to assign host Christina Bobb to the Trump authorized crew and provides Rudy veto energy over what she might report.

CHRISTINA BOBB, HOST, ONE AMERICA NEWS NETWORK: There may be a lot proof of organized voter fraud, that it should take a short while to kind by the offers being reduce.


KURTZ: In a deposition reported by the Each day Beast, the previous Trump lawyer says he acquired Charles Herring to agree that Bobb would not be working all that a lot for OAN for a pair months, Bobb could not inform Herring what she discovered with out permission and if she got here up with an excellent story, quote, “she must run it previous us so it did not violate any of our guidelines. That is fairly beautiful.”

In order a Reuters report displaying the overwhelming majority of OAN’s funding comes from AT&T.

The media completely pounced on Anthony Fauci for supposedly appearing just like the grinch on Face the Nation.


MARGARET BRENNAN, HOST, CBS: However we are able to collect for Christmas or simply too quickly to inform?

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: , Margaret, it is simply too quickly to inform. We simply acquired to focus on persevering with to get these numbers down and never attempt to soar forward by weeks or months.


KURTZ (on digicam): President Biden’s chief medical advisor pushed again onerous on CNN.


FAUCI: The way in which all the different disinformation goes round, you say one thing speaking a few landmark of a time and it will get misinterpreted that I am saying you’ll be able to’t spend household Christmas time which is nonsense.


FAUCI: You possibly can.


KURTZ: And he is sort of proper on this. When Fauci by no means mentioned what the headlines declare he mentioned reminiscent of Newsweek’s Dr. Fauci’s COVID Christmas risk have to be the ultimate straw. However he may need prevented that pitfall however offering a fuller reply.

Carlos Watson shut down Oz Media days after the New York Occasions revealed deception by his co-founder and different main issues. However then he went on the Right now present with a brand new message.


CARLOS WATSON, FOUNDER, OZY MEDIA: we’ll open for enterprise. So, we’re making information right now. That is our Lazarus second.

CRAIG MELVIN, ANCHOR, NBC NEWS: Why would anybody belief Carlos Watson shifting ahead?

WATSON: Sure. Nice query and honest query and heart-breaking query as a result of I am used to individuals trusting me.


KURTZ (on digicam): Sure. With buyers bailing and one bringing a fraud swimsuit, good luck with that. Anchor Craig Melvin actually pressed Watson particularly when he tried to assert Sharon Osbourne was considered one of his buyers. It seems Watson gave her some shares within the firm to settle a lawsuit she had filed. Unreal.

We made it. And at last, two brave journalists have simply gained the Nobel Peace Prize. Maria Ressa has been a power in opposition to the Philippines’ authoritarian president exposing corruption and the violence of his drug battle.

Dmitry Muratov steady to publish an unbiased paper in Vladimir Putin’s Russia regardless of threats, harassment and the homicide of six of his journalists. That’s battling for a free press beneath essentially the most harrowing circumstances. I am glad to see them get that sort of recognition. I do not know if journalists ever gained the Nobel Peace Prize earlier than. Perhaps way back however it’s powerful to do it in that sort of repressive authoritarian surroundings when violence is used as a software in opposition to the press.

That is it for this version of Media buzz. I am Howard Kurtz. We hope you want our Fb web page. We publish my each day columns there. And let’s in fact proceed the dialog on Twitter at Howard Kurtz. If you’re so inclined, try my podcast Media Buzz Meter. We cope with the buzziest tales of the day on daily basis, weekday that’s. You possibly can subscribe at Apple iTunes, Google podcast, in your Amazon system, Spotify. Want I say extra.

Effectively, as at all times, we attempt to cowl an entire lot of floor right here from politics to Monica Lewinsky. That is a narrative that dominated my life everyone’s else’s life. Nikki Haley and so forth. It seems like I am out of time. So, I am going to simply say we’re again right here subsequent Sunday, 11 Jap. We’ll see you then with the most recent buzz.

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